RFC: vecmath added to jogamp?

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RFC: vecmath added to jogamp?

John Klehm
jogamp picked up the javax.media.opengl name space stuff from java3d why didn't it also grab the vecmath package? It seems like I find myself implementing vec3 vec4 mat4 classes where it'd be nice to use an established API.

I'm not really complaining JOGL and  jogamp are working great on my machine. Nice work everyone. :)

Consider this a feature request I guess :)
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Re: RFC: vecmath added to jogamp?

Sven Gothel
Administrator
On Friday, January 13, 2012 08:41:58 AM John Klehm [via jogamp] wrote:
>
> jogamp picked up the javax.media.opengl name space stuff from java3d

No, we didn't AFAIK.

JOGL used this namespace from it's beginning.

> why
> didn't it also grab the vecmath package? It seems like I find myself
> implementing vec3 vec4 mat4 classes where it'd be nice to use an established
> API.
>
> I'm not really complaining JOGL and  jogamp are working great on my machine.
> Nice work everyone. :)
>
> Consider this a feature request I guess :)

license of vecmath ? size ?

since we internally don't use vecmath and since you easily can add it
to your project since it already exists - why adding it ?

sure .. let the discussion begin .. open a bug entry (-> enhancement)
and let's see the opinion of people etc.

note: it's best to keep things smaller if there is no benefit.

~Sven
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Re: RFC: vecmath added to jogamp?

gouessej
Administrator
In reply to this post by John Klehm
Hi

I'm against such a proposal as anybody can use its own math library currently. Adding high-level features to a quite low-level API is a bad idea because when some people use it with a very high-level engine with its own high-level features doing the same thing, you will have to store data in both formats or tinker a lot to use a single one.

Please add proper features in proper APIs to keep a design organized by layers.

Finally, I don't use vecmath, I use its Ardor3D equivalent and Xith3D programmers use another one. I have never asked Sven to put any of them into JOGL.

John, if you need something high-level based on JOGL, look at jzy3d or at a 3D engine like Ardor3D.
Julien Gouesse | Personal blog | Website
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Re: RFC: vecmath added to jogamp?

John Klehm
In reply to this post by Sven Gothel
> No, we didn't AFAIK.
> JOGL used this namespace from it's beginning.

OK I admit fairly new to this but my statement was based on the wikipedia I ingested it went something like this:
Java3D released 1998 discontinued 2004, mentions being built on top of JOGL which was at one time developed by the Sun Game Technology group.  I guess I just assumed that they dropped it in 2004 and it's been maintained here since then.  If that's wrong my bad for assuming.  Is there a project history posted somewhere?  I'm merely curious.

> license of vecmath ? size ?
License is GPL, I see you guys are BSD. I'll come back to this later.

Size is pretty small. Javadoc is here:
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E17802_01/j2se/javase/technologies/desktop/java3d/forDevelopers/j3dapi/javax/vecmath/package-summary.html

This just captures the basic vector and matrix math that you'd need to do for even the simplest use of opengl.  Sure you can use some other packages math stuff but like you say smaller is better.  Let's keep it simple and light weight and just enough to avoid having to pull in another package for vector cross product or a matrix multiply.

> since we internally don't use vecmath and since you easily can add it
> to your project since it already exists - why adding it ?

We'll as adding it is pretty much out as the license isn't compatible yes?  I guess what I ran into was that if you are using JOGL you are almost guaranteed to be using some kind of vector/matrix maths cpu side too.  Why not have something lightweight and simple so people can avoid having to pull in a much heavier package just for cross products and transposes or waste time rolling their own vector math code.  I know I've created a fair bit.

I agree smaller is better but it just seems that when you're always using two things together perhaps it'd be nice to get them in one spot.
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Re: RFC: vecmath added to jogamp?

Rami Santina
Administrator
there is a VectorUtil class in graph package and the PMVMatrix class..
U can use those if you like, both work on premiitives.

Cheers,
Rami

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:24 PM, John Klehm [via jogamp]
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>> No, we didn't AFAIK.
>> JOGL used this namespace from it's beginning.
>
> OK I admit fairly new to this but my statement was based on the wikipedia I
> ingested it went something like this:
> Java3D released 1998 discontinued 2004, mentions being built on top of JOGL
> which was at one time developed by the Sun Game Technology group.  I guess I
> just assumed that they dropped it in 2004 and it's been maintained here
> since then.  If that's wrong my bad for assuming.  Is there a project
> history posted somewhere?  I'm merely curious.
>
>> license of vecmath ? size ?
> License is GPL, I see you guys are BSD. I'll come back to this later.
>
> Size is pretty small. Javadoc is here:
> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E17802_01/j2se/javase/technologies/desktop/java3d/forDevelopers/j3dapi/javax/vecmath/package-summary.html
>
> This just captures the basic vector and matrix math that you'd need to do
> for even the simplest use of opengl.  Sure you can use some other packages
> math stuff but like you say smaller is better.  Let's keep it simple and
> light weight and just enough to avoid having to pull in another package for
> vector cross product or a matrix multiply.
>
>> since we internally don't use vecmath and since you easily can add it
>> to your project since it already exists - why adding it ?
>
> We'll as adding it is pretty much out as the license isn't compatible yes?
>  I guess what I ran into was that if you are using JOGL you are almost
> guaranteed to be using some kind of vector/matrix maths cpu side too.  Why
> not have something lightweight and simple so people can avoid having to pull
> in a much heavier package just for cross products and transposes or waste
> time rolling their own vector math code.  I know I've created a fair bit.
>
> I agree smaller is better but it just seems that when you're always using
> two things together perhaps it'd be nice to get them in one spot.
>
> ________________________________
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> below:
> http://forum.jogamp.org/RFC-vecmath-added-to-jogamp-tp3655995p3656292.html
> To start a new topic under jogamp, email
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from jogamp, click here.
> NAML
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Re: RFC: vecmath added to jogamp?

Rami Santina
Administrator
In reply to this post by John Klehm
Also you can use the Quaternion class for all the rotational calculations.

Cheers,
Rami

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Rami Santina <[hidden email]> wrote:

> there is a VectorUtil class in graph package and the PMVMatrix class..
> U can use those if you like, both work on premiitives.
>
> Cheers,
> Rami
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:24 PM, John Klehm [via jogamp]
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> No, we didn't AFAIK.
>>> JOGL used this namespace from it's beginning.
>>
>> OK I admit fairly new to this but my statement was based on the wikipedia I
>> ingested it went something like this:
>> Java3D released 1998 discontinued 2004, mentions being built on top of JOGL
>> which was at one time developed by the Sun Game Technology group.  I guess I
>> just assumed that they dropped it in 2004 and it's been maintained here
>> since then.  If that's wrong my bad for assuming.  Is there a project
>> history posted somewhere?  I'm merely curious.
>>
>>> license of vecmath ? size ?
>> License is GPL, I see you guys are BSD. I'll come back to this later.
>>
>> Size is pretty small. Javadoc is here:
>> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E17802_01/j2se/javase/technologies/desktop/java3d/forDevelopers/j3dapi/javax/vecmath/package-summary.html
>>
>> This just captures the basic vector and matrix math that you'd need to do
>> for even the simplest use of opengl.  Sure you can use some other packages
>> math stuff but like you say smaller is better.  Let's keep it simple and
>> light weight and just enough to avoid having to pull in another package for
>> vector cross product or a matrix multiply.
>>
>>> since we internally don't use vecmath and since you easily can add it
>>> to your project since it already exists - why adding it ?
>>
>> We'll as adding it is pretty much out as the license isn't compatible yes?
>>  I guess what I ran into was that if you are using JOGL you are almost
>> guaranteed to be using some kind of vector/matrix maths cpu side too.  Why
>> not have something lightweight and simple so people can avoid having to pull
>> in a much heavier package just for cross products and transposes or waste
>> time rolling their own vector math code.  I know I've created a fair bit.
>>
>> I agree smaller is better but it just seems that when you're always using
>> two things together perhaps it'd be nice to get them in one spot.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
>> below:
>> http://forum.jogamp.org/RFC-vecmath-added-to-jogamp-tp3655995p3656292.html
>> To start a new topic under jogamp, email
>> [hidden email]
>> To unsubscribe from jogamp, click here.
>> NAML
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Re: RFC: vecmath added to jogamp?

Worker
In reply to this post by gouessej
I can spend a math package that i wrote, if needed.
Its in size 192 kb und has

vectors (2d,2f, 3d,3f,4f,4d)
matrizes (2d,2f, 3d,3f,4f,4d) and
quaternions (4f,4d)