road map? release builds?

It's been 6 or 7 months since I last stopped by, any progress on a release build or road map?  I've been playing minecraft recently and suddenly I want to get back in to Java & OpenGL :)

Hi

Sven has made a great job, he fixed some very impacting bugs, especially the bug 411 impacting applets and Web Start. As far as I know, it is a bit early to speak about a release candidate. What is your point of view, Sven?

The autobuild works anew since Thursday, enjoy :)

I have to commit my few fixes and my unit tests.

On Sunday, November 07, 2010 01:08:22 gouessej [via jogamp] wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Sven has made a great job, he fixed some very impacting bugs, especially the
> bug 411 impacting applets and Web Start. As far as I know, it is a bit early
> to speak about a release candidate. What is your point of view, Sven?

We had another round of changed in regards to license/headers and gluegen.

We will see ..

>
> The autobuild works anew since Thursday, enjoy :)

Indeed, at least that part is working again :)

>
> I have to commit my few fixes and my unit tests.

Please do so ..

~Sven

>>it is a bit early to speak about a release candidate

Well it is the 1 year anniversary since we had the famous 'JOGL is dead. Long live JOGL'...  

In comparison there have been around 4 releases of LWJGL in that same period.  I don't want to sound critical, I'm just excited to see a final build of JOGL2.  Is it a problem with resourcing? technical issues? or just adding too many new features?  

Could you at least set a date for a RC build? or road map for final builds?

Cork wrote

>>it is a bit early to speak about a release candidate

Well it is the 1 year anniversary since we had the famous 'JOGL is dead. Long live JOGL'...  

In comparison there have been around 4 releases of LWJGL in that same period.  I don't want to sound critical, I'm just excited to see a final build of JOGL2.  Is it a problem with resourcing? technical issues? or just adding too many new features?  

Could you at least set a date for a RC build? or road map for final builds?

Is it a joke????? How do you dare comparing JOGL with this ----- -- ---- called LWJGL? Its support of OpenGL ES and OpenCL is younger. OpenGL ES is not really homogeneous with the rest of the API in LWJGL and its support of Linux and/or lots of "old" graphics cards is not reliable enough for production. LWJGL has 4 releases with tiny changes except OpenCL/OpenGL ES support. I complained several years to get some major bugs fixed in LWJGL. I had only a pretty black screen when using it during several months because its maintainers refused to admit that they had caused a regression on ATI cards, I had to prove I was right, they were saying it was a driver bug.

NEWT is a really major change in JOGL. You underestimate the whole job done on JOGL, really.

If you don't like JOGL, use LWJGL and I wish you good luck when some users complains about "nothing works", "pixel format not supported", "heu...... rather use software rendering because LWJGL is buggy". Do you know why the NASA uses JOGL? Do you know why Ankama Games chose JOGL? because it works (even with low end graphics cards).

If you think we are too slow, contribute, fix bugs.

Edit.: Sven is right. Sometimes, I should keep cool. I removed a term that could potentially be considered as insulting.

On Tuesday, November 09, 2010 23:11:41 Cork [via jogamp] wrote:
>
> >>it is a bit early to speak about a release candidate
>
> Well it is the 1 year anniversary since we had the famous 'JOGL is dead.
> Long live JOGL'...  

good, we are still alive :)

>
> In comparison there have been around 4 releases of LWJGL in that same
> period.  
Well, we had our builds as well, haven't counted them though :)

Sure, we didn't marked any one as an official release yet,
too much work to do. But we are working on it right now.
Read: Our automated build promotion and release scripting.

> I don't want to sound critical, I'm just excited to see a final
> build of JOGL2.  Is it a problem with resourcing? technical issues? or just
> adding too many new features?  

All of it .. and not enough people.

>
> Could you at least set a date for a RC build? or road map for final builds?

This week.

~Sven

>
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On Tuesday, November 09, 2010 23:46:32 gouessej [via jogamp] wrote:
>
> >
> Is it a joke????? How do you dare comparing JOGL with this piece of crap
> called LWJGL?

Julien, thank you for your enthusiasm.

However, I don't think it is helpful or nice in any way
to call our dear colleagues product in such a insulting way.

> If you don't like JOGL, use LWJGL

Of course, we are all free to choose our tools,
that's why I am happy within the open source and sometimes
also open minded world :)

And for me, the best thing is: I cannot only run away from a product,
I also can enhance and help.

Cheers, Sven

Hi!

Sven Gothel wrote

On Tuesday, November 09, 2010 23:46:32 gouessej [via jogamp] wrote:
>
> >
> Is it a joke????? How do you dare comparing JOGL with this piece of crap
> called LWJGL?

Julien, thank you for your enthusiasm.

However, I don't think it is helpful or nice in any way
to call our dear colleagues product in such a insulting way.

They are not my colleagues even though JOGL and LWJGL share some pieces of source code. They like using FUD campaigns against JOGL very frequently, one of them insulted me on another forum... Don't be blind. I should not have called LWJGL "a piece of crap" but rather a quite unreliable set of bindings.

I have spent a lot of time in porting Nifty GUI (and some other APIs) to JOGL2, I'm quite annoyed when some people compare JOGL with LWJGL.

Hi

I'm sorry to refresh this very old thread.

I have been recently accused of defamation by a moderator of another forum, he wrote that I "totally 'defamed'" the team working on this set of bindings "like they weren't worthy of the air they breathed". This is how he understands my replies to Cork's comments here.

According to Wikipedia, defamation is

the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual person, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation

I'm going to prove that there was no intentionally false statement in my posts.

gouessej wrote

Its support of OpenGL ES and OpenCL is younger. OpenGL ES is not really homogeneous with the rest of the API

At first, Michael worked hard on the very first Java binding for the OpenCL API whereas some discussions about supporting OpenCL in the other set of bindings started in 2010 (its first successful OpenCL call was done in September 2010) whereas the initial import of the JOCL prototype was done in July 2009.

Secondly, the second major version (2010) of this library manages OpenGL ES in a completely separate API which was known to be less stable than the ES "part" of JOGL. Maybe Xerxes can confirm as I remember that he tried to build it.

gouessej wrote

its support of Linux and/or lots of "old" graphics cards is not reliable enough for production. LWJGL has 4 releases with tiny changes except OpenCL/OpenGL ES support. I complained several years to get some major bugs fixed in LWJGL. I had only a pretty black screen when using it during several months because its maintainers refused to admit that they had caused a regression on ATI cards, I had to prove I was right, they were saying it was a driver bug.

There were 4 major bugs annoying me:
- a black screen on some machines
- some straight lines drawn on the desktop and in the task bar when leaving an application under GNU Linux with KDE
- some random crashes after 15 minutes of run under Windows with some very old (2001) VIA chipsets
- a bug in a picking example
- a crash or a black screen under GNU Linux when multiple bit depths are supported and/or the refresh rate is unknown

I talked about the first bug here, I investigated for 4 months, it was fixed in the Space Invaders example.

I realized several years later (in 2013 or 2014) that the second bug was reproducible with NEWT (JOGL) when modifying the refresh rate of the main monitor, it wasn't coming from this library but I had no mean to reproduce this bug with JOGL in 2010 because of the API changes occurring later.

The third bug has never been fixed. It wasn't reproducible with JOGL.

I fixed this bug in JOGL. I asked them to fix it in the same example in their library but nothing has been done and I'm unable to find where I talked about that, sorry. There are only 2 lines to fix.

The very last bug isn't fully fixed in the second major version of this library as far as I know but I can't reproduce it because my current configurations expose the refresh rate unlike the one I used in 2010.

gouessej wrote

I wish you good luck when some users complains about "nothing works", "pixel format not supported", "heu...... rather use software rendering

It is necessary to use an "hidden" switch to allow software OpenGL when using this library if you don't want to get the error message "pixel format not supported". I admit that I was annoyed by the common excuse consisting in claiming that there was no bug in their library and that it was coming from the desktop manager, the operating system or the driver. Just look at the occurrence of "driver bug" and "driver issue" in some of their replies. As I explained here, I had numerous problems with this library under GNU Linux. I consider that I cooperated a lot to improve the situation, I sent some screen captures to the developers, I investigated for several months.

I remind that some users of this library claimed that JOGL was dead for years even before Sun Microsystems / Oracle abandoned it which lead to some stress. There's no smoke without fire. Just use your favorite search engine and look for the words "jogl" and "dead" to see it by yourself. This is usually what I mean when I talk about their FUD campaign against JOGL.

Therefore, I see no intentionally false statement in my posts. In my humble opinion, his accusation of defamation is legally inadmissible and the potentially insulting term was removed from my post. He has the right to lodge a complaint against me if he still considers I defamed his team but there are some statutory limitations (in other words, it's too late for legal actions). I would be grateful to him if he stopped misquoting my posts.

Finally, I should behave myself to avoid causing some troubles and harming JogAmp in the future. In my humble opinion, it's difficult to keep cool, smart and polite with a very few people who instrumentalize some Java websites and IRC channels to harm my reputation (one of them used my last name with the word "terrorist") and to deny the reality (especially the FUD campaign and the fact that most major engines don't only support their library) but I must not answer to those provocations. I would like to set some rules for this forum to prevent it from being used to harm JogAmp users.

On 01/10/2015 01:09 PM, gouessej [via jogamp] wrote:
> Hi
>
> I'm sorry to refresh this very old thread.

All good !

<snip .. tons of details, all [probably] true/>

> Finally, I should behave myself to avoid causing some troubles and harming
> JogAmp in the future. In my humble opinion, it's difficult to keep cool, smart
> and polite with a very few people who instrumentalize some Java websites and
> IRC channels to harm my reputation (one of them used my last name with the
> word "terrorist") and to deny the reality (especially the FUD campaign and the
> fact that most major engines don't only support their library) but I must not
> answer to those provocations. I would like to set some rules for this forum to
> prevent it from being used to harm JogAmp users.

My freedom may end where yours begins,
not stepping on others toes too much :)

When it comes to 'freedom of speech', well,
I don't need to listen to all FUD - and I will only selectively reply.
In the end, those who simply believe a one sided argument w/o further
investigation will fall, follow their depicted leader.
This is not my problem, and I cannot cure the world :)

Sometimes I get in the mood of
  'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take this anymore!'
  <https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84924572&feature=player_detailpage&v=q_qgVn-Op7Q&x-yt-ts=1422411861#t=68>
  (^^ for your chuckles and deep reflection)
then I post my viewpoint and conclusions <http://jausoft.com/blog/>.

You are doing a great job defending your views and the situation, Julien.
However, is this really necessary? Is your intended audience even reading?
IMHO, respectful people judge you by your actions.
Here in the JogAmp forum, IRC etc, we all know you as a very supportive friend.

“If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech
for views you don't like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech
for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of freedom of speech,
that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise.”
―Noam Chomsky

Warm greetings & thank you Julien and all other participants.

~Sven

--
health & wealth